So, you know, this particular panel, it's actually more difficult than what you expect.
And it's more difficult because you guys are a little sleepy after eating.
So my panelists are going to have to get their act together.
The first panelist I'm going to ask to come and join me
is Professor Paul Marik, who asked me before we started
this thing, I asked him, what do you want me to ask you?
And he says, why don't you ask me why am I so handsome?
So he wanted that.
But I don't need to introduce Paul.
Paul is well-known.
Next panelist is Dr. Kirk Milhaan,
which you already met.
He won an award yesterday.
And our last panelist is Dr. Jordan Bond.
He's a Senior Fellow of Microvascular Diseases with us.
He's a Chief Executive Officer at the Birmingham Argyle Care,
support certified internist.
And he really has helped hundreds of thousands of people.
Not hundreds of thousands.
Well, about hundreds of thousands.
Now.
That sounds.
I mean, our panel really has to do with post-vaccine syndrome.
And the first question I want to ask to all of you guys is,
how many of you have seen a post-vaccine injured patient?
Lift up your hand.
So, actually, quite a lot of you.
And, you know, we're going to ask each one of our different panelists
to just give us their opinions and their points of view
on this post-vaccine syndrome, which, as I said earlier today, it's a real new pandemic.
I mean, we are going to have millions and more millions of cases evolve over the next few years,
and we all need to be well prepared for that. So, Paul, why don't we start with you?
Yeah, so we know from the V-safe data that there are about 18 million people at least
who are vaccine injured.
So, you know, we with FLCCC were involved in the vaccine injury early
and developing a protocol.
So what you're going to hear from me is not very happy.
So we used to be somewhat enthusiastic.
Back up. So what we did is we put together some medications and drugs
which interfered with the sequelae or consequences of the spike.
But my understanding now, and I'm sorry to say this,
is that once you spiked, you spiked for the rest of your everything lives.
And so we don't know, so the patients who are tested,
and so we know this from the Yale study.
These people have circulating spike up to,
in that study was 709 days.
But there was a patient who was tested, but for reasons
that she would screw the data, they didn't include her.
She was vaccinated or stabbed or jabbed 1,400 days.
She has circulating spike 1,400 days.
She lives in torment despite every kind
of medical intervention that's been tried upon her.
Her life is miserable.
And she has circulating spike 1,400 days after her vaccine.
So we don't know out of the 18 million plus people,
how many have circulated spike.
And it's kind of simple to do.
We just need to test them, but they don't want us to do that test
because they don't want us to know how many people have circulating spike.
I know there are a few people working on tests
because they don't want us to measure spike.
I know Pierre is working on a urine test that will allow measurement of spike
And Vaughan is working on a test that maybe will allow, you know,
he'll tell you about spike.
Because I think fundamentally, people who have been vaccinated,
the fundamental question is, do you have circulating spike or not?
Because as far as I understand, it doesn't matter what the hell you do
with all of these stupid detox kits.
All these detox kits do is moderate the consequences
of the spike protein or whatever that may be.
But that doesn't get rid of the spike.
You're not treating the disease.
You're trying to minimize the consequences of the spike.
And what you really need to do is get rid of the spike.
And so this new NIH needs to look at why are we making spike?
Is it incorporated into our DNA?
Why are the monocytes not dying and apoptosing?
Why are we making spike?
And what can we do to get rid of spike?
So we can get nanokinase, we can give curcumin,
we can give arginine, we can give anticoagulants.
We're just treating the manifestations of the spike.
We're not getting rid of the spike.
So, and then obviously there's a problem of cancer,
which is a, we're not sure the window of how long
after you've been jabbed, you're at risk of getting cancer.
Maybe indefinite, maybe indefinite,
and that creates enormous consequences.
So, you know, we can talk about it later.
I'm not too optimistic at the moment.
There certainly are patients who are severely vaccine injured,
And I think we know some of them who are now four years.
So, vaccine injury and long COVID are very different.
Long COVID is mostly self-limiting.
Similar symptoms, but I think your spike load is less.
And they are managed, they manage to get rid of spike.
These people who are vaccine injured have persistent spike
production and are very symptomatic.
terribly symptomatic, and they suffer.
So that's my very pessimistic outlook.
That's actually, you know, it's scary.
I mean, look at how quiet everybody got.
Because what Paul is saying is basically
that things are not looking good.
And if we don't do something about it, especially studying,
and like you said, you know, with this hopefully new
and revised NIH, we can actually do some studies
that will identify why do you have this persistent production
of the spike protein and what can we do.
Kirk, can you tell us your take on this?
Well, it starts with the spike protein being chosen as the protein
that the body was going to be asked to be made,
which happens to be an incredible endothelial cell activator.
And once the endothelium is activated, then a whole cascade
of inflammation occurs.
But it also just stopped there.
It is in its essence, for me, of importance to me,
it's a cardiac toxin.
This is an indirect toxin.
It's a direct toxin.
So the sequelae from that, and especially as we learn
from the, just the initial stuff from the Yale study,
is that for the people who are injured and if they continue
to produce spike, they're going to live in a constant state
of endothelial activation, chronic inflammation,
and chronic inflammation in the heart leads to eventually death
of the myocyte and fibrosis.
Follow that with the new data on microscars
from the three older cases who died,
and they were unsure of the etiology of their death.
But they were able to show, finally,
by pieces of tissue to show these microscars.
So little small areas.
And the heart network,
it has an electrical activity that goes through it,
but it also is very important
on cell-to-cell communication through gap junctions.
And if you start putting short circuits in that,
the risk of having an abnormal rhythm
or a fatal rhythm goes up dramatically.
And we've all been concerned of what we've seen,
especially in those people who really tax their hearts,
ask a lot out of their hearts of sudden cardiac death
in the athletes, so that's been concerning for us.
So I think there, but it's hard to find
to diagnose someone with microscars.
No one really wants to get a biopsy of their heart.
Cardiologists don't like to do biopsies of their heart.
They don't like to grab, put little pinchers in there
and rip off pieces of muscle of a person
because the heart doesn't like it.
People don't want, if we want to look at a larger scale
to see if we have larger scars,
people don't want to get MRIs.
They don't want a lot of, even in our population,
They don't like the idea of getting gadolinium injected, and we don't know how many people
still have spike protein floating around, so it's very concerning.
Now what I'm seeing, well, I'll stop there and then I can talk about what I'm seeing
clinically later on.
Okay.
So, I mean, that's very, very interesting, and then, you know, later I'm going to ask
you what's your method of choice to diagnose in this day and age, but let's learn a little
more of the of the true pathological situation from German. So first off I'm
maybe I'm just younger than Dr. Merrick but it's actually been quite a fun time
in medicine to actually start from the ground up and actually try to figure out
how to help people that need our help which is why we're doctors okay. I think
that's the most important thing we have to focus on doesn't mean we have all the
answers. But what I'm seeing and actually thankfully for all the people that work with me is that these people need help. It is
incredibly complex. And the deeper we go I feel like the less I know. And actually it is fundamentally changing how I see
things like it. We'll talk about in a second. The Venus the Venus system which is something that I don't think anybody ever
studied in medicine very well, but it happened to be the most immunological part of the vascular
system to begin with.
And what we're seeing, especially in a phenotype that includes what I would call the super
syndrome pentad, which is the vaccinated that are hypermobile, they have mastoactivation,
they have GI dismotility, they have dysautonomia, and they have autoimmunity.
And as much as I'd like to say I know the causative agent, the correlation is just blown.
I mean, it's just almost obvious when this person comes in
that you can almost predict a lot on this phenotype,
the venous phenotype, that that's what they're gonna be.
Now, I would argue that there's a connective tissue issue,
which just runs, but at the core of it,
in terms of how they make proteins like collagen
and elastin, which is kind of what we've been doing.
The one question that I get in my office all the time
is why me?
Why not the other person?
So, you three are clinicians, you three see patients.
Is there any way to determine who's gonna get in trouble,
who's not gonna get in trouble?
How do we know?
I think just clinically, the thing that I've seen the most
are, again, hypermobility,
or people that have a history of hypermobility.
I also see it in people that have a history of thrombophilia
or issues with fibrinolysis.
And I see it in people that already have
the immune activation like an autoimmune disease to begin with.
And I think what is happening is basically a nuclear bomb is being thrown in their system
and causing dysfunction, especially in those three areas.
So I think he's right that there's a genetic or medical condition which predisposes you.
But I think the other thing is the vial, so that we know that the load of spike protein
or mRNA in the vial varies from vial to vial and there's stuff
in the vials we don't even know what's in the vial
and the contaminants we don't know.
So I think the quality control either by design or by accident is
so poor that a lot depends upon what you injected with and we don't know.
What you inject and how often you inject.
I mean I have patients that have had 14 vaccines 14. I'm serious. All right. We have people that every time there is one
day out of the first one in line. It's part of what we do. What about the kids. I mean you see children primarily. Yeah. So
what I'm seeing in kids and this is this is dramatic in terms of what what comes to me. So as a sub specialist I'm not seeing
all kids. So when I talk to Catherine Welch who's a pediatrician she's not seen this to the degree that I'm seeing this. But
But I'm seeing all these kids who are coming with what are called palpitations.
They just feel their heart is racing.
And so we saw early that a lot of adults were having what we would call sort of like POTS,
but not really postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome.
But actually they would have tachycardia syndromes doing nothing, sitting around.
People knew this because of their eye watches.
They would look down or their FitBets and they would see that their heart rate was 40
and then it was 180 and then it was 20.
They went to the cardiologist and the cardiologist said, oh, it's sinus tachycardia.
It's no big deal.
For us, we're looking for super ventricular tachycardia or ventricular tachycardia.
And so if we say it's just sinus tachycardia, it's no big deal.
Well, the problem is, is if you're sitting on your couch and you're doing nothing and
suddenly your heart goes up to 160, it feels very much like a big deal to you, right?
You can't take your bite.
And as a cardiologist, both the patient isn't necessarily very good
at taking a diary of what are they doing when they're having symptoms,
and I'm not very good at reading the diary when they write it down.
So often as I'm looking through a halter, if it says sinus tachycardia,
okay, sinus tachycardia.
So the cardiologist says to the person, oh,
it's just sinus tachycardia, don't worry about it.
And maybe you're having a panic attack.
And maybe you have anxiety.
And you're not exercising.
Maybe it's because you're depressed.
Maybe I'll show you on an SSRI.
This is a common thing, right?
And they'll say, but doctor, I'm not depressed.
And I'm not overly anxious.
Yes, you are.
By the time you come out of the office, you are.
So the people feel, to use the common term,
they feel very gaslit when they go to the doctor,
especially the cardiologist,
because they gave them no help,
but they realize they can't go on a treadmill anymore
and they can't exercise anymore.
And any postural changes at all
send them off and into these abnormal rhythms.
But I'm seeing this, for instance,
I saw the other day in a clinic of 11 patients,
nine of them had this syndrome.
It's, this is incredible.
And again, we are all seeing it.
I saw an ER nurse come to my office
just last week, same symptoms, you know.
But she had been seen already by two psychiatrists
because everything is just too stressed
because of her work that she does.
I cannot be sitting on my couch relaxing in my home,
drinking a little bit of a beer when things go crazy.
And what Jordan was saying to what he's seen,
and I think, where do I put this?
Do I think this is a toxicity to the heart?
Not necessarily.
I think that this is a larger dysautonomia
that is happening without the body.
How much is the vagal nerve?
How much is the adrenal glands?
How much is the central nervous system?
It is very complex.
Yeah, I mean, remember anything that has,
anything the system has an endothelial cell that is activated.
And when you activate endothelial cells, they usually become sticky.
And then they usually activate platelets, right?
So, very complex, but I think that this is, I'm not seeing,
And largely because the kids, most of the kids are not taking the vaccine.
I'm not seeing acute myocarditis really.
I'm just seeing really this dysautonomia that is just this huge patient volume that I haven't
seen before.
Excellent.
Now, Jordan, I've heard you say the veins more than once.
Do you want to show us some info?
full. So what I want to do is kind of give you an example of kind of patients that I would typically see. And one of the best
kind of sticking in my head would be a 19 year old NCAA track athlete at TCU. And when she came to me she had all those
symptoms and such things. But interestingly enough within a week of actually having the vaccine during a race a NCAA race
She basically couldn't move her legs during the race and had to lay
down and actually couldn't complete the race.
And so in a sense, if you all have ever seen my old lectures,
a lot of what I've been looking at, even in acute COVID,
was that there is this activation of basically the endothelium
in the coagulation system that's inappropriate and ultimately results
in fibrin that's resistant to fibrinolysis, which is kind of, again,
a fancy word with hey everybody should make this covid in the vaccine make you make it a lot more. And it makes it in a way that's
harder to get rid of. OK. So we all have all heard that. But what I didn't realize is that there's a system that we usually think
of that's all cosmetic called the Venus system. And when we think of the Venus system we are actually talking about these huge
capacitance vessels that basically are holding 70% of our blood volume, and when we think
of blood volume, we're talking about just literally all the leaders, 70% of it is in
the venous system, but the venous system is first of all immunologically active, but it's
a lot more than these floppy little things that cardiologists don't want to touch.
It actually is also has a muscular layer and actually is involved in the ability to change
that reserve that feeds the right heart.
And this is what we would call cardiovenous syndrome, or what classically a cardiologist
might call preload failure.
And preload failure actually is pretty darn important in thinking about not only how the
heart races, but effectively how much blood is getting to your pulmonary vasculature.
Which if blood is not getting to your pulmonary vasculature, then you're going to get pulmonary
dysfunction that ultimately results in what we call hypocapnic cerebral hypoperfusion.
And so in that sense, a lot of what we looked at is how do we get the veins to actually
start working again and acting as a capacitance vessel and not just a freaking huge reservoir
that doesn't change with position and space.
And interestingly enough, as much as the people might have POTS, which is a clinical definition
based on heart rate, a lot of them truly have what we call orthostatic intolerance.
orthostatic intolerance is actually on the same spectrum
as what I would typically look at
when we think about POTS.
So there's a recent study from Mass General
that actually took 125 patients
with hypochondriac cerebral hyperperfusion,
125 patients with POTS,
and everything was the same.
Their preload failure, and we'll show that in a second.
The only thing that was different is one had tachycardia
when they did it and one didn't.
And that is an interesting concept.
But the other thing, a lot of what we're seeing
is how the veins are damaged.
And what has kind of led me down this road
is why is the actual tonality of the vein being limited?
And it actually has to do with this damage
to something that we've never even really thought about,
which is the vasovasorum.
And so the vasovasorum is basically the arterial supply
or the oxygenated blood supply to the veins.
Remember the veins, the other thing is,
veins are your sewage system.
They're all the crap.
And I usually use the metaphor, if you think about it,
But you know pretty quickly in your house when the water ain't working, you know, when
you go up and the tap doesn't turn on, you don't usually find out about your sewage system
not working until you're in a hell of a lot of trouble.
And so in a sense, that's what the venous, the venous system kind of, I kind of, I like
to look at things simply, but if the venous system isn't working, if our sewage system
is not getting blood back to the, to the liver or even to the right heart, we're going to
have problems.
problems start in very multi-systemic issues.
The other thing that's interesting is the veins are in amazingly immunologically active.
So the outside of the veins are covered in mast cells.
And if you have sheer stress on these veins that can't actually contract and relax because
they've been damaged, these muscles aren't doing that anymore, then you're going to have
endothelial activation and immune activation and there's a direct ability for all of that
crap from mast cells and other immune mediators to get
in your bloodstream and then your whole body is going to suffer.
So a lot of what I like to think about is,
is these muscular layers of the veins, which sounds very weird.
But the other thing is, is a lot of how I look at it is this venous wall damage,
again, basically losing the tonality of the veins,
ultimately starting in compression syndromes, which by the way,
are very likely in people with EDS hypermobility and those kind of things,
ultimately leading to right heart preload failure,
which interestingly enough,
where is the right atrium and the SA node?
They are actually around a very similar issue.
So, if you have a hyperdynamic right ventricle and an irritation
of this, you're going to activate inappropriately heart beating,
and then you ultimately results
in what we call hypochondriac cerebral hypoperfusion.
So, I can actually release it.
This is some of the things I look at,
But the interesting thing is one
of these studies actually showed me something
that I didn't realize we could use, but it's so simple
that probably most offices can actually help you figure
that out, and it actually happens to be capnography
with n-tidal CO2 and supine verse standing.
And that's what this study did, and it was interesting
because what we actually realized was
in these controls everything stayed the same.
But in hypocapnic cerebral hyperperfusion in POTS,
the end-tidal CO2 went dramatically down.
And what they also proved, they had these ultrasounds
on the cerebral vasculature, is they had a dramatic drop
in the actual perfusion to the brain
when these people were in these issues.
So interestingly enough, this, you know, again,
I think Kelly will release this, this is a fairly simple and cheap way
to figure this out with literally not putting a catheter
in somebody's right heart.
but it explains so many other things.
And in a lot of these people,
what we have done is address the veins
and actually get them back to pumping blood correctly.
And the consequences of that are not only resolution
of their issues in the heart because of their tachycardia
or those kind of things, but also,
their immunological system starts working correctly
so they're able to actually down regulate mast cell activation
where they don't need to take medicines anymore.
And in a sense, even a lot of their autoimmune markers start
to become otherwise normal, which is, again, something you would have never predicted.
And then lastly, the interesting thing about this study is for every millimeter drop in
end-tidal CO2, it's associated with a 3% cerebral blood flow reduction.
And so what they found is most of these people have greater than a 12-millimeter difference,
which is basically 40% less blood to the brain.
And guess what?
of the brain that are going to be the most affected by this happen to be the eyes the frontal cortex and the vestibular
system which is again leads to all of these kind of things. So interestingly enough the other cohort that we've seen is
these vaccine injured 70 year olds that actually happen to have lower extremity heaviness and lots of urinary urgency and
sacral back pain. All of those develop because of the collateral ization that develops because of the main highway out of the
pelvis being compressed is when we get them opened up, they were previously diagnosed
even before COVID with things like Parkinson's or MS-like symptoms or other things that were
what we call neuroinflammatory neurodegenerative diseases.
And those things actually in some of them go away, which is even crazier to think about.
But in that instance, that's what's so cool about having something in the pelvis actually
affects something that's in your brain. And I don't think I would have ever predicted that unless you were seeing people that
were injured. That I mean all of this is extremely fascinating. But you know I get concerned because it sounds like once
you have that vascular damage that Venus vascular damage you're pretty screwed up. I mean you are at a stage where if we
believe what Paul says, we're doomed. I mean, and that's not a good, that's not a
good thing. What do you think, Paul? Well, I think what we need to do is figure out
why we have persistent spike protein. You know, what is the basic mechanism? In order
to treat a disease, you have to understand the disease. And then we have
to work on methods to get rid of the spike protein. How can we get rid of the
spike. So, I mean, we can, you know, give anticoagulants, we can give whatever other
therapy alleviates the symptoms, but we're not really getting to the problem, which is
we have persistent spike protein. Spike protein is probably the most toxic compound known
to the human body. I mean, it does terrible things. We know what it does to the vasculature,
inflammation, we fundamentally need to get rid of spike.
So there are these detoxification kits, which I think are a scam.
Natokinase will break down extracellular spike protein, but it doesn't get into the cell.
It doesn't break down intracellular spike.
We have to figure out why the body is making spike and what we can do to switch off spike.
Because it's a spike-mediated disease.
It's a toxic protein.
And so I think, you know, maybe we now have an opportunity to do real research.
Because nobody is, you know, no one recognizes this disease.
And I think we need to, we urgently need to do research and try and figure out how to
stop the body making spike.
And I think the only way we're going to do that is when more of us are interested in
doing these things.
Second, when we have a good ICD-10 code for this illness,
one of the problems is you try to codify
for a vaccine-related injury, you can't.
I mean, there are a couple of codes here and there,
but nothing that truly does.
So what I wanna do next is I wanna ask each one of you,
independently, if I was to come to you
with these kinds of symptoms, what would you do to me?
I know that Jordan was talking about that nice little MRI,
which sounds really cool,
But what would you guys do?
I mean.
Well, when they come to me, often they're not symptomatic.
I see them completely asymptomatic.
And I'm chasing something that might last for a minute
or two minutes and then goes away.
Might go away for three days.
Might go away for a couple of weeks and then it comes again.
So often I don't see anybody in my office that I sit them up.
They become tachycardic and then go right back
normal like I would expect.
I stand them up.
But is there a role for like a prolonged halter or stuff like that?
Yeah, so we do a prolonged halter, and then I get sinus staccata.
So what do I do is I try to change their preload.
I try to change their preload.
So often I have success, I can't take away a lot of their symptoms, but I can take away
some of their symptoms by changing their preload.
This is usually by a large amount of salt entering their diet.
Remember we've entered a place where most people walk around with the water pacifier,
that they are drinking water and sucking on water.
You know, 20 years ago we never did this, but now it's a necessity that we must have
water at all times or you're going to die, right?
So I think often we probably live with a certain amount of hyponatremia from mild water intoxication.
That would exacerbate this.
So usually I'm trying to get salt up.
And then I had an interesting case the other day.
This kid was having profound symptoms if he stood up.
He had an incredible pain in his feet and he would flush
from his knees down, flush.
And so what I did with him is I not only dealt with fluids
but I got a lot more salt in him and I put on compression hose.
And that took away a lot of his symptoms.
I think what's hard about, like what Paul was saying,
and as we're trying to talk about these things,
and if you could bring up my slide, please.
Oh, is it here?
Okay. So I saw this the other day, and it said, behold a square,
a shape with four equal sides, equal lengths,
and with four right angles.
If I told you that, you would imagine a square, right?
Well, this fits all that criteria.
So often when we're talking about things,
we're not necessarily talking about the same things.
And we might be talking about what does it look like in a teenager?
What does it look like in a pre-teenager?
What does it look like in a 70-year-old?
And where are they on their spike journey?
Do they have circulating spike?
You know, these are all things that we don't know
because we're largely working in the dark,
because we don't have a way, if it is spike protein,
then we need to be able to assay spike protein.
And if we treat against it,
we need to know if we brought it down.
And right now I'm concerned
that we're just the next level of snake oil salesmen
and we're asking people to spend hundreds of dollars
each month on supplements that we don't know if they work.
Correct.
And you know, we have to, but there are other things.
I mean, one of the things that you guys were talking about
is this obviously the circulating spike,
but what about the spike that is inside the cell?
And yesterday, John and I, we were talking about
What can you do?
So weird enough, I don't know how I become somebody
that is actually looking at assays
and actually working with somebody who is basically
did some of the original assays for HIV back in the day.
And yes, that is, first of all,
the actual protein is very small.
So your typical ELISA is not going to be
a very effective means.
So we have to use things like Samoa or digital PCR
or things that are actually gonna touch this
in almost a totally different way.
but we also have to utilize kind of what they did with HEPB
in terms of actually exposing or eliciting
or denaturing the blood in a way
that actually exposes the spike too.
So that's why the assay sometimes is going to be,
and again, this is early in what we're looking at,
is you might be able to pick it up if there's a time,
but actually if it's intracellular,
you've got to find a way to stimulate it
and promote it to actually expose it.
Now, does that happen inside or outside,
or what actually methods do you need in the lab to do
that is a whole interesting question.
But the actual first problem is it's pretty darn small
and assays require something to be a little bit bigger
than something that's as small as a spike prick.
And Jordan, it's the Yale study, what they were using,
they were talking about semtomols.
So this is an incredible low concentration
that can have what we think is a dramatic effect.
And the Yale study used what we call Samoa, which is made
by a, it's a company that we're in contact with called Quantarex, but what they do is
basically they're attempting to utilize and actually have antigens on a surface area that
actually gets you down to those picogram levels, which is, or even smaller.
But then you have the question of is it intracellular or what do we stimulate and do that?
And so, I mean in a lot of serum assays, you're actually getting rid of all the cellular components
because you're spinning them down.
So do we need to keep those around and actually allow them
to actually denature and have the spike exposed too?
So those are some of the questions that, again, I'm not a,
I don't know how I, basically I'm just interested
in actually answering the question.
I'm trying to find people to help me answer it
and spending a lot of money at a time.
But it was fun because, again, I go back to my whole thing is,
it's cool right now to be a physician to actually help people
that is, you know, are suffering.
But you know that's when patients come to my office they want to they want to know okay what I have and second
How can I treat it and Paul you already talked about the the toxin thing?
What about intermittent fasting that's a lot of people ask about intermittent fasting to try to get some of that
Yeah, I was going to talk about that but before I do I think maybe looking for spike in the urine maybe a simpler
way to detect spike because you're getting all of this stuff that's broken
down and excreted in the urine so the urine may be a good avenue to test spike
and then so when we think about if spike is intracellular you know it's a foreign
protein how can we get the body to break it down you know obviously intermittent
fasting which activates autophagy would be one way to do it.
So Matt, Hellman, myself, we did write a paper on theoretically
that intermittent fasting may break down intracellular spike
because it, you know, breaks down foreign and misfolded
and delagated protein.
Whether it's actually true and what impact it has,
You know, we don't know.
But I think intermittent fasting is a healthy lifestyle choice anyway.
So I think it's something one should consider.
I certainly can't do any harm because you have
to somehow limit your load of spike protein.
So, Jordan, how do you treat your patients?
So, in a sense, when they come in, we do a smorgasbord
of labs as well as imaging.
Some of that is because they're somewhat guinea pigs in terms
of us collecting massive amounts of data and being able
to drive hypotheses, but some of the things
that are interesting is most of these people have some type
of evidence of endothelial dysfunction, which are things
that you usually don't check.
Even hematologists don't usually check them,
but there are things like thrombin-antithrombin complex,
factor VIII, von Willebrand's factor,
transforming growth factor beta,
those kinds of things that actually give me a suggestion
that there's this definitive endothelial dysfunction.
We also sometimes check, well, we always check antibodies,
but the problem with antibodies is I've got plenty
of vaccine-injured patients that some of them
actually don't have spike antibodies,
which makes that test you for a while you were hanging on it.
And now you're like, well, unless they're lying
about getting vaccinated, which I don't think they are,
And that usually happens in people that have immune tolerance to begin with.
So their body's unable to even stimulate a response.
And so my thought has been usually those people that have even lower spike, I'm even more
concerned about because there's been no attack.
And so in that sense, that's how the complexity kind of drives it.
But yeah, for me, it is pretty robust inventory.
And then looking at those.
Do you find anybody as a, as a mock of a sector of therapy because many people use the antibody
and I think there are many limitations.
Yeah.
A hundred percent because you have, again, they get, I see these patients all the time
and I have probably, I probably have 10,000 people's antibodies over at least a three
year period in my own because I actually have my own assay, my own reference lab in my clinic
because I'm crazy.
And the.
He said it.
Yes.
Yes. I will say most of the people that are vaccine injured have much higher antibodies. But the antibody movement is almost
dependent on whether they were infected not necessarily by Covid but anything that stimulated their immune response. Yeah. And so
it's it's it's a you're chasing it in a way because if you do get the flu guess what's also going to go up is going to be your
spy. The non specific response. Exactly. So how do you follow your patients. How do you know that they're getting better. If
You're not going to be using the antibodies.
What are you doing other than them telling you,
I have less brain fog or whatever?
So in venous disease, the interesting thing,
we're about to probably publish this, is a lot of these young athletes,
especially, I mean, I had a guy that like ran a sub four-minute mile, okay?
Now he can't run at all.
And he also had a DLCO that was like he had smoked
for 40 years, two packs a day, okay?
So at first I was like, and again, I think if you were hospitalized
and had interpulmonary pressure because of the ventilator,
you're going to have aviolar damage, okay?
But these people don't.
And so that led me to say why, and it ended up being
that the DLCO is actually a reflection of diffusion,
but that's assuming that there's constant vascular flow
across the pulmonary vasculature.
Well, the interesting thing is in these people it is not,
and especially when you do a DLCO, which it requires you
to breathe in swamp gas and inhale it as much as you can. The CEO stands for carbon monoxide. It's much more avid for
red blood cells and even oxygen. So when you breathe out after holding your breath it better not be there. That's actually
how we do that. And the interesting thing was is I had never really thought about when you exhale you actually are even
lowering the preload even worse. And in a sense you're effectively causing a diffusion issue. And guess what that diffusion
issue, what happens when they get their venous system repaired?
It goes back to normal.
So that's an interesting way to know we won.
Again, I'm saying this is about 20% of the people I see.
Again, I would say, you know, but it's a fascinating area
because it's usually the younger, athletic, historically,
you know, they're a little more flexible
than the average person, those kind of things.
The other thing that we usually follow is thrombin
and antithrombin complex because that's usually an indicator
of endothelial injury, so that usually goes back to normal.
Literally, I have endothrombin-endothrombin complexes
in people that are 200, most of them are over 60,
and normal is under four.
And the interesting thing is, as we treat,
that level goes back to under four.
Now, I'm not saying we're solving the solution.
We're definitely putting them on things that are actually making
that assay come down, which would be things
that are anticoagulant.
But the interesting thing is, I know we have one
when we can pull them off that, and that level stays down.
What are you doing for children, Kurt?
Yeah, well, you know, it's really, until five years ago,
we were really careful with what we gave children.
So, what I try to do is get symptomatic relief, and I'm,
and really right now, because a lot of the things
that Jordan was talking about, like I'm not seeing collapse
to the IVC, and like I said, I'm often treating a history,
rather than something that I'm seeing specifically
in my office, is I'm trying to just do basic things.
And that's to increase preload.
Maybe try to increase if I have some, what appears
to be a autonomic system-dependent vasodilation
of the venous system, then I use compression stockings
and things like that, trying to see, really trying
And before I do other, I don't think that a lot of other medications that people like
to use for vasovagal syncope and other things like that, I try to avoid those.
I have a lot of these kids that go up to 180, but they also go down to 40.
So I don't want to treat them with beta blockers, right?
Because then I travel, I go down a whole different step, right?
I don't necessarily want to use mineral corticoids on these kids, right?
So I'm trying to do basic things until really I have more information about this, especially
the pediatric subset that I'm dealing with.
But I'm, like I had this one kid whose feet flushed
and he couldn't walk because he had so much pain
and it sounded like he had a neuropathy.
He did really well with compressions, sockets, and salt.
Then I had this next patient I saw
after him yesterday was a 14-year-old girl.
She got no response to the salt at all and is still concerned
that she goes from 40 to 180 when she's sitting on the couch.
So, I'm still trying, and then, but we,
I thought about mast cell activation in her,
and I know it's not perfect, but we had a negative tryptase on her.
So, I will try again, and I'm going to try on triple antihistamine therapy
and see if that might help.
But those are the things I'm doing, but it's, it's like some respond
and others don't, and it's really hard.
Some of the questions I think you're reporting when we talk
about, again, what I'm describing is a quarter
of the patients of the 4,000 we've seen.
And this would be the venous disease, hypermobile,
mast cell activation, GI dismotility,
autoimmunity, dysautonomia.
I call it my super-syndrome pentad.
Actually, there's a guy in California, Andrew Maxwell,
that actually kind of seems brilliant.
If you're spending two hours with him on the phone,
you're like, I don't even know which way is up.
But he, you know, but the interesting thing about this is most
of these people, when we think about Venus insufficiency,
the questions that I ask are, do you have trouble going to sleep?
Do you wake up unrested and does it take a while
to get going in the morning?
And most of these people, that is now true,
but it didn't used to be true, okay?
The interesting thing is how unfortunately God designed us is the
The reason we sleep horizontal is because the venous system's passive and there's no
muscle movement if you have normal sleep cycle when you sleep.
So therefore there needs to be a natural gradient back to your heart.
And so the other interesting thing is if you don't move your leg and there's any impediment
to venous movement or the tonality of the veins have been compromised, you're going
to wake up and have to deal with sewage that's sat around for eight hours.
And interestingly what we use is not just compression stockings, we actually use dynamic
compression before they go to bed to get as much venous blood
out of their legs and lower extremities before they do.
They usually sleep or get to sleep easier,
but also wake up more rested.
And the other interesting thing is when you think about it,
if you have hypocabinic cerebral hypoperfusion while you're sitting
up and standing up all day, when you lie your head down at night,
your brain goes, we've been starving for oxygen all day.
And now it's like, all right, man, we got oxygen, we're good.
And then all of a sudden you talk to all of them and they're like,
You know, when I'm in bed, when I lay down in bed and I'm in my mind,
I can think, I can do a lot of stuff.
And they're like, why does that happen?
All day I was tired.
But again, it goes back to this, the brain is responding to that lack
of being happy during that time period.
So if that's the case, then simple interventions
such as leg racing could be an easy fix for some of his patients.
And interestingly enough, if you think about the crazy people
that decided to become distance runners, okay.
At their core, they at some point when they ran,
felt good and they wanted to repeat it.
And most of these people again are hypermobile, so this pliable system
in their body is more likely to have more capacitance
than the average person.
And so when they start to run, they're like, I got to do that every day.
I'm going to do it on vacation.
I'm whatever.
But what they were doing is compensating
for some mild venous insufficiency historically.
But then when the toxin that we'll never get rid of
comes into their system,
we actually, the damage actually makes it
where they can't even do what they were able to do
to compensate.
Does that make sense?
Perfect sense.
And I think that one of the other concerns,
you know, we're talking about a very specific narrow window
of vaccine injury, right?
And we're still trying to figure it out.
Yeah, right.
And it does say this is about 25%.
Yeah, but I'm acknowledging,
I'm just telling you sort of what my window is,
and it's a pretty bad window,
but I have a pretty small window compared to everyone else
that has maybe truly devastating neurologic effects,
right, long-term organ dysfunction, right?
So this, we're just sort of...
Yeah, but the interesting thing about that,
and that's the weird thing about this,
is some of the patients that come in wheelchairs
and they're having non-epileptic seizure issues,
and the neurologists have told them
that there's nothing wrong with their brain
or even the patients that have
literal thromboinflammatory strokes
that they got after the vaccine in their brainstem.
Of course, the neurologist is like,
well, you know, that just happened on its own.
They go looking for it,
but it's what we call microthrombosis in situ.
And it would happen in an area of the brain
that's not as well vascularized as the others,
especially if you already had
hypocaputry or hypoperpugia.
But so it's interesting that actually
even on some of these people,
and you'll probably see this too,
is these, you know, they've been, they thought they had MS,
they're told they have MS,
but then obviously they don't have MS.
And then actually when you actually help them
get venous blood back to the brain,
a lot of these weird neurological phenomenons
improve dramatically.
And I think a lot of it, if you go back to,
if you look at a lot of times primary
as an endothelial chronic vasculitis, right?
Then it broadens up to all of them
and how that interacts in each organ at the end of the issue.
If you look at that paper that they actually were trying
to actually look at the bio-distribution of mRNA
in the, well really in the body.
But what the actual paper showed us even at the heart level
was actually where the mRNA was targeting
was the endothelium of the heart, not the myocytes.
Which again goes back to this fact
that even maybe the myocarditis is not necessarily,
it could not necessarily be primary
but it could be inflammatory at the endothelial level.
which is, again, was fascinating to me,
probably because I was like, oh yeah, that's what I think.
Well, that's exactly what happens.
In a myocardial infarction, though,
the endothelial cells bring in the white cells
that bring in the inflammation
and then actually bring in the cells
that destroy the myocardium.
So that's why when you're looking at something
that irritates and causes the endothelial cell
in the wibal palatibodies to degranulate,
what it does is it opens up every organ to dysfunction.
And that's one thing that we see a lot
in our clinical practice, I had an 85-year-old woman come to my office just last week with
quote, unquote, new onset ALS.
That's how they label her.
I've never seen somebody with ALS at 85, new onset.
That I can tell you.
And these are the patients that go to the mainstream doctors.
They go to the regular doctors, and now this particular patient went to Baylor College
of Medicine, chief of neurology, and says, this is classic ALS.
It's not.
It's a classic patient that got multiple vaccines,
has vaccine-related injury,
and we need to figure out how we can best help them.
And, I mean, you just gave me that great idea
that just simple interventions
by improving the, you know, venous flow to the brain
may have a good option.
So after looking at this and then going down,
you know, actually probably need to have a neurologist
help me with this, but when you look at the areas
of the brain that have neurodegeneration,
especially in things like MS,
Dawson's fingers happen in actually the vascular interfaces.
areas of the Parkinson's, substantia nigra,
it's a vascular interface.
And so this chronic cerebrovascular insufficiency
is actually causing neurodegeneration
and neuroinflammation.
Which is fascinating.
Hey Joseph, just one thing to remember.
This is a multi-system disease.
We know that the spike goes to every organ.
And if you look at React 19 surveys,
the average number of symptoms the patients have is 23,
which covers the gamut of different organs.
And so they go see a traditional doctor
who can't put all these symptom complexes together
because it doesn't fit a traditional pattern.
But the reality is, is they have multi-system disease.
And, you know, the average number is 23 and it involves,
you know, multiple organ systems.
And so the question I have, which I'm sure the audience have is,
there are a lot of these detoxification kits.
Do you use them?
Do you use them?
Because I think people are being exploited for spending a lot
of money on, you know, nutraceuticals,
pharmaceuticals or whatever to spark detox
that really don't do what they're made of.
I think what we have to realize is the person who did a lot
of endothelial cell culture is that when we study these
compounds and they might be in,
might be very effective in vitro.
The question is actually, can you get that same concentration
up to the level in the plasma to have the same effects?
So you get a study out there that goes out far and wide
about how this compound does this to this protein.
Everyone goes, oh great, I'm going to take that supplement.
But you would have to take a jar of the supplement each day to try
to get your plasma levels up to the same thing
that I can do with the cell culture.
So our inability to get from lab bench to actually humans is really hard
for us to really get a good idea of efficacy unless we know
what we're trying to treat and we have an assay to see if we've treated it.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
So for the next 15 to 18 minutes we're going to be going over some
of the questions from the audience.
The first question that I'm going to go for is actually an interesting
question that says this particular person did not get the vaccine but got COVID more
than once. Can they have circulating spike? So from my perspective is a really good question
and the answer is we don't know because we haven't tested it and that's why it's so
critical that we absolutely have tests that could test spike. My bias would be that the
load of mRNA and spike with the vaccine exceeds many fold that with the natural infection. So I think it's less likely
to have circulating spike if you've had natural infection. But but we simply don't know. And there is still a controversy
about that. I mean there's a lot of deniers of the long copy of the spike protein. I mean I see kids that look just like the
vaccine injured that I know they didn't have a vaccine. So where is that coming from. Is it. Is it acting like a prion. Is it not. Is
that is the body not able to expel it. Holy crazy. But you know when I talked to Dr. Redfield about what was going on in
Wuhan in terms of their dual purpose program designing an aerosol eyes way to actually it backed. I mean we all got a man made
a man-made immunological stimulant,
meaning we basically got the aerosolized vaccine version,
even if we never took the thing through our arm.
I mean, that might be a counterculture.
I mean, we're all happy that, you know,
we didn't get the thing that bypassed, you know,
bypassed our defensive, initial defenses,
but it was designed to actually not activate
innate immune response.
I mean, it was glycosylated in a way
that made it where those things didn't happen
in the way it was expected.
And so they could actually reuse that vector multiple times and package it in different
ways.
One of the questions that we have is, what do you guys tell or give your suffering patients
to make their, you know, that there are no cures, there are no comprehensive answers.
What do you tell them?
I mean, they come to you pretty much devastated.
They have been through 20 doctors before they come to see you.
We don't have answers, so how will you get them to cope?
I think I'd focus on what we can actually figure out and then
actually things that we can help them get their life back to normal.
And I'm not saying that we have all the answers.
I actually will tell them we don't.
Actually, they already have figured out doctors don't have the answers.
I mean, yes.
I mean, you see 20 doctors, you're going to be like,
these guys don't know nothing.
In fact, they all disagree.
It's ridiculous.
But instead saying what we don't know,
We don't know but what we do know is is is how we can actually assist and help
I mean even to the getting back and I'll talk about veins all the time
But if there's a venous reservoir of low oxygen coagulable inflammatory blood that sticks around the body for eight hours a day
Do you think your immune system and clearance is gonna work fairly? Well, it's not
And so a lot of these things by augmenting and actually helping
It you know actually get these people better and weird enough
I mean my group here I'm thankful for them all to help they do because I couldn't do it without them. But it's a lot of the
ways that I've continued to help people is actually through success and actually success meaning to me as a 14 year old girl
for two years that never got out of bed couldn't go to school that now is back at school cheerleading and not having a painful
period for the first time in her life which again sounds like a lot of things that you would have never factored into
vaccine. But if you look at the body as a whole you're going to see it. I mean again I go back to even the Cerebro
Hypochondriac Cerebro hyper perfusion. I think the neurologist even now at the NIH they've only ever looked at how the
vascular interfaces in the brain affect the neurodegeneration and neuroinflammation. They've never looked beyond the
brain to see where the vascular issues began. Yeah. Kirk do you have any parents requesting a quote cardiac
such as an MRI for their vaccinated kids before they still do any kind
of sports? I mean, I assume, you know, all these cases of southern cardiac
death that we've been seeing, and do you have a protocol for it?
I have not, I have not had that come to my office. I have a feeling that that is
being stopped before they get to me. I have had more doctors ask me if they
should, because the Lancet paper was very clear.
When they looked at people who had post-vaccine myocarditis
after 90 days, basically all of our normal stuff
to clear kids was normal.
EKG was normal.
Holter was normal.
Trapona was normal.
Stress test was normal, right?
All those things that we, so the idea
that we can clear somebody is it makes us feel better as doctors,
but we're really not truly clearing them.
What I would probably say is that for kids who had significant symptoms,
especially after their second dose, I think they deserve a cardiac MRI.
A lot of people who would be concerned to the extent that have been
around people that would tell them that a cardiac MRI is important are also
around people that would tell them not to get gadolinium.
That's interesting.
Now, so what do you tell them?
You know, what I can do is I can say, this is how I can help.
This is how I give people hope.
I can help you symptomatology.
I'm really not sure what's causing all of your symptoms,
so I can't promise you a cure, but I will work with you.
And what I tell them is you're not crazy.
That's the first thing I tell them.
You're not crazy, right?
And, you know, we do the same in my office, and the other thing
that we tell them is like make no mistake,
we're going to get to the bottom of this
and we're going to keep on working with you.
Every day there are new things that are being developed.
I mean, every day Jordan is coming up with a new theory
and hopefully a new assay.
You know, a doctor who says to a patient that we're not sure,
is actually I think very reassuring to a patient, but.
Yeah, I mean, I think that these people,
they need all the help we can give them.
Now, could we modify some form of plasmapheresis to reduce inflammation from the spike and,
you know, and relieve some of the spike that is circulating?
Paul?
Yes.
If not, please, in the past.
So, I mean, there are vaccine-injured patients who have intermittent plasmapheresis.
It certainly removes the antibodies, and they get temporary response.
The problem is that their B cells and T cells are so primed, you know, unlike normal, say,
Gideon Barreo, you do one, one session and it's done.
I mean, these people have monthly plasmapheresis or plasma exchange because they're continually
making spike protein.
So it becomes a problem.
I mean, many of these people that have severe neuropathy, they do get benefit from plasmapheresis
but it's tends to be time-limited so I mean the one thing that I've kind of
been investigating first of all I'm not confident in the blood products
especially if it's humanized albumin or IVIG currently meaning because I'm a
little worried that there is there's some interesting data on not only how
IGG from people with vaccine injury affect mice or rats but also are we
actually having a good mechanism for surveillance that's one of things I'm
trying to get the judiciary to look into because I think the actual blood product pool is something we need to be like have
an Arthur Ashe moment. That's all I would look at it. Second thing is you know that means if we're not going to give
humanized blood products back to that person a lot of times the things that I'm looking at are things like low volume plasma
exchange that you could do repeatedly you know for seven hundred and fifty to less than that milliliters. But then you don't
actually need the the the the albumin component to to to be. But again there's some interesting data that there's actually a
study looking at Alzheimer's and low volume plasma exchange right now. But it's it it's an interesting concept. And do you
guys think that the body has enough natural mechanisms to clear the vaccine spike protein by itself. I pray we do.
I'm a Christian, so I think God had us the ability to actually fight and actually fear
things that are in our environment, but I mean, I'm not saying that that's always the
case.
I think, you know, there probably have been scourges of man that you couldn't get rid
of.
I think if we have a chance, the body has a better chance of clearing it than we do,
given enough time.
Given enough time.
And again, sometimes what these people need is just time.
And reassurance and keep walking with them.
Yeah, I mean, there's no way about it.
Now, one more time we've been asked the same question,
which is, and I guess we need to go over this again.
Any other line predilection or predisposition
for patients to have the spike,
I call it spike protein, I mean,
do you guys see it on any particular age group
or any particular genetic makeup?
I would say most of my young people are young, athletic,
and they're on the spectrum of hypermobile.
Now when you think about hypermobility, again,
you can do genetic tests on EDS,
and you're probably gonna pick up maybe five to 1%
of actually the connective tissue abnormalities
or differences that exist in these people.
The funny thing is, is when you think
about connective tissue differences,
it's probably what makes them athletic to begin with.
They can swing their hips different than the average person.
They can do things that the typical person doesn't do.
So I think that is kind of the predilection
that I'm seeing.
The other is that runner predilection.
And because that runner predilection
is because they already had some venous insufficiency,
which was because of the capacitance of their veins,
because of their connective tissue underlying issue,
that they became addicted to running another camp.
Are we at any point in time
where we can develop diagnostics
that definitely will show a vaccine causation?
And this is mostly for legal purposes,
instead of relying on the patient history?
Absolutely, I mean, that's what it has to be,
that people will develop reliable tests that can.
Yeah, once you start seeing people, you know,
things happen, it's amazing how that takes work.
It's gonna rely on being able to tell the differences
in the actual, you know, the protein or protein in the blood
between a vaccinated spike and a natural occurring spike.
And that might take two, right?
You might have to look at the spike
as well as the antibody production,
looking for a nucleic capsid versus just spike alone, right?
You might have to have a combination,
but I think you might have a little bit of a, you know, a smoking gun there if we can,
we can show spike and we have a very good mechanistic reason why it would continue to
be produced.
And I would argue they can do this.
Yeah, as far as I know, it's really been done because the amino acid sequence of the vaccine,
the probes are different to the natural infection.
So you can use a probe which specifically targets the amino acid substitution.
So you can tell whether this is natural SARS-CoV-2 or this is from the vaccine.
Yeah.
It seems like there's some worldwide resistance for us to be able to do that.
Yeah.
You wonder why.
Yeah.
I wonder why.
Now, do you guys know whether or not there are any technologies or therapies or anything
that would allow the body to stop the production or enhancement of this spike protein, any way
to reverse it. I mean, what is the news? They knew it. Basically, what the audience wants
to know, what's the newest thing that you've heard? We all have heard about everything,
hyperbarics.
This is all unintended consequences right here. If you were to try to stop MRA production,
the unattended consequences of those large-scale therapies, I mean, you have small interfering
RNA that can break it down technically, but I wouldn't touch it.
Okay, but that makes sense.
Now, one of the questions that is being asked
and that's what's specific for you, Jordan,
because should the blood supply be tested
for contaminants from the mRNA shots?
A hundred percent.
I mean, I think that-
Now, let's be realistic.
Do you think that's gonna happen?
I think what you have to do,
and this is, again, just talking to Jim Jordan
and Thomas Massey, is you have to actually have
the judiciary have a thing in terms of safety
for the individuals of country.
You have to actually have an investigation at that level because then you actually have
the power to call in these people and figure it out.
But we first have to develop a test for the spike protein because testing for anybody
isn't going to.
No, no.
What they can do is they can actually, like they have the probes, they can actually get
blood products and prove those blood products for evidence of this.
I think that's not a hard thing to do.
I think we can do it.
I think this is something that NIH could do.
I think we could do it like this.
This is something that, as far as I'm concerned,
this was mandated by the government.
The NNH has a responsibility to have a centralized lab
that could test spike-induced pulmonary disease.
And that makes sense.
One more question.
Many chess films' readings find, you know, pulmonary edema,
ground-glass opacities, atypical pneumonia.
Can you guys talk a little bit
about spike-induced pulmonary immunopathology,
pulmonary fibrosis, interstitial lung disease,
pulmonary hypertension. I mean I see that in my practice on regular basis. I mean I would argue that the radiologists are
reading those things as if covid never or a vaccine or spike protein never happened. I mean what we have actually looked at
in tissue and there's a guy named Graham Lloyd Jones in England who is a radiologist that is pretty. I mean a lot of his
studies as well as what he's showing is how it affects the lungs doesn't even have to be through the reading. It actually is
the oral, meaning the actual access to the vasculature
of the lung comes from the replication
that happens in the mouth.
And so, and that changes the vasculature.
And actually, when we look at diffuse aviolar damage,
it's at the radiology level,
you assume that it's on the aviolar side.
The reality is when you get the specimens,
it's on the vascular side.
That's awesome also.
In the last two minutes,
I want each one of you guys take 40 seconds apiece
And give us your last words on, you know,
vaccine related injury, present and future.
What do you expect?
I think that as physicians, we have to walk with these patients.
They're really hard patients
because often it's not a successful walk.
It's a frustrating walk.
And so I think a lot of physicians want it would be nice
if someone else would take care of it.
But a lot of times, nobody else is taking care of it.
And so I think if we hear them,
we acknowledge their problems
and do our best to help them with symptomatology
while we continue to work on something long-term
that might be efficacious.
I think that might be the best we can do.
Awesome.
I mean, I think to me, we have to,
first of all, most adults
that are actually making the decision
are no longer getting this, okay?
The problem is when it actually goes
into the vaccine schedule for children,
where parents are actually,
and children are getting it without their consent
to utilize, meaning they're being consented,
but they actually don't have the idea that they don't need
to touch this, neither sometimes does the parent.
They just think it's part of whatever the hell they inject them
with when they go to the pediatrician every day.
And so that actually has, this has to be removed
from the vaccine schedule for pediatric.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And that has to do a lot with our fourth pillar.
the pillar that talks about changing or modifying that culture.
I mean, it's a culture that, you know,
you go to the pediatrician to get your shots.
I mean, we've been doing it for 80 years.
I mean, people are doing it on regular basis.
So we need to change that culture.
Paul?
So I think as Kirk said, these people are often very symptomatic.
Their lives have been destroyed.
And, you know, as healthcare providers,
we need to do everything we can to support them.
But on the other side, I think as a society,
we have an absolute obligation to do further research.
I think we have no option to understand this disease better
and we need to understand why the body is making spike.
Why does it continue to make spike
and how we can interfere with that process?
I think so, you know, the new NIH,
I think has a fundamental responsibility
to these millions of people who are being gaslit
to try and help them out of this terrible position
that they've been put in.
Excellent.
With that, I want to thank our panelists.
I want to give them a big applause
because they truly deserve it.
Music
